What’s it like working as a family court magistrate?
With this role you will gain insights into a range of child welfare issues and be able to make a tangible difference to the community as a whole. It can mean you might deal with some difficult emotional situations, but you’ll have support and dedicated training to help you develop the skills you’ll need to handle them effectively.
What will I do?
As a magistrate in the family court, you could be:
- making decisions that affect vulnerable children
- supporting separated parents in making arrangements for their children
- enforcing child maintenance orders
- helping prevent domestic abuse
It’s an important role in which you can have a significant impact on a child’s life and welfare, and a family’s future.
Court observations
As family court cases are heard in private, you will not be able to observe a family court hearing before you apply. Applicants to the family court are required to carry out research into the family court before they apply. A useful place to start would be our family division of the magistrates court research resources. You can find further useful information under the before you apply section of the application process.
In addition, you may also choose to visit a criminal magistrates court to observe proceedings and get a sense of what being a magistrate entails.
See below for two roleplay videos designed to give you an insight into the role of a magistrate in the family court (access the subtitles by clicking play, then ‘cc’ in the bottom right hand corner of the video):
Video 1 – A Public Law Case
Read full video transcript
Court clerk (0:23)
Stand please.
0:25
[Background noise]
Legal Advisor (0:44)
Good morning your worships. I shall just start the recording. This is the first case on your list, FC26734598 and is the matter of Wessex County Council and Logan. This is an application for an interim care order for the child Sophie who is five months old and currently in emergency foster care with the local authority. Perhaps you could ask Mr Evans ma’am Counsel for the local authority to introduce the participants and outline the case for the authority.
Magistrate (1:17)
Thank you, madam Legal Adviser. Yes please Mr Evans.
Mr Evans (1:20)
Good morning your worships. I represent Wessex local authority and seated behind me is Miss Donkin, the social worker. Across the bench is Mr Sulpher, who acts for the mother Miss Logan who is seated next to him. Next to me is Mr Nappa who represents the guardian for the child, Sophie, the guardian Mr Jolyn is seated behind Mr Nappa. This matter comes before court today following concerns regarding the care of Sophie, who’s five months old. The application for an interim care order comes on the back of concerns by the local authority, general practitioner, and community midwife regarding the mother’s relationship, in which there have been allegations of domestic abuse violence and drug use during the mother’s later stages of pregnancy. These concerns have heightened since the birth and the health visitor has reported that the child is showing signs of neglect and failure to thrive. This culminated in a police call out to a party at the house in the early hours of Sunday morning at which there was evidence of loud music late at night, drug use and rowdy behaviour including that of Miss Logan, who is alleged to have obstructed a Police Officer. On searching the property police found the child Sophie awake and crying in a bedroom. There was evidence of drug taking paraphernalia in the child’s room and the child was distressed, cold, clearly hungry and looked unwashed and neglected. The police took the decision immediately to take the child into care. The local authority subsequently placed the child in temporary foster care and today they seek an interim care order to secure her well-being in a foster placement. Miss Logan, the mother, is present in the court and represented by Mr Sulpher. The biological father’s name appears on the birth certificate, so he does therefore have parental responsibility. Unfortunately, he’s not present today and indeed the police currently wish to speak to him about various matters arising from the neighbourhood disturbance on Sunday. Consequently, I can tell you that efforts are being made to seek his whereabouts, however the local authority will seek to provide evidence that Miss Logan and her partner have been together for some 15 months and that during that period there have been several police call outs to domestic disturbances including violence and injury to Miss Logan. If your worships are minded to grant the interim care order today then the local authority would also be seeking orders to begin the process of information gathering and assessments including police reports, drug testing of the mother, medical reports in the general practitioner and the health visitor and appropriate interim contact between mother and child.
Alongside these reports the local authority will be seeking a parental assessment of the mother. My learned friend and I have had discussions prior to this hearing, and we would suggest the following timetable. Health visitor and GP reports by 12th of May, drug testing on the mother by the 26th of May, parental assessment report by the local authority by 8th of June, police reports by 15th of June, statement from the mother by 22nd of June, which will leave us requiring a date for a further hearing in the week commencing the 28th of June. If that could be a mid-week date that will afford us the opportunity to have an advocates meeting the day before the hearing.
For the court’s convenience, I would also state that the 26-week limit for the conclusion of these proceedings will be October the 13th, unless I can assist your worships further.
Magistrate (4:40)
Thank you, Mr Evans that was very helpful. Yes, please Mr Sulphur.
Mr Sulpher (4:45)
Thank you, your worships. I am grateful to my learned friend for his summary of the situation as the local authority sees it. However, on behalf of Miss Logan I will say that my client denies use of any drugs and furthermore she denies that there has been any violence or abuse in the relationship. Having said that the mother’s position today is that reluctantly she does not oppose the making of an interim care order but would wish that the court consider a kinship placement with her mother. Nevertheless, she wishes to cooperate with the local authority to ultimately achieve a speedy reunification with her daughter, Sophie. Your worship’s I think it might be helpful to give some background to this application from the perspective of my client and her daughter Sophie. Sophie and her mother live together in rented accommodation in Turnpike Road. They’ve lived there for some two years, having been securing a tenancy with the help of the local women’s aid following my client’s desire to escape from a violent and abusive relationship. Fifteen months ago, the same partner made contact with her again and the relationship between the two of them recommenced. My client fell pregnant with Sophie quite quickly and while she admits that there were a number of incidents involving police call outs prior to the birth of Sophie, this was because she and her partner were arguing because of debts and also because they were finding it difficult to cope with the pregnancy and then the subsequent arrival of a new baby. Now my client disagrees that there has been any violence during those incidents. Your worship, the most recent incident which led to Sophie being taken into care occurred when my client and her partner decided to have a party to celebrate the birth of their daughter and matters did get out of hand after some partygoers consumed drugs and alcohol. As I previously stated my client absolutely denies that she had drunk too much alcohol or indeed had taken any drugs herself. She says that she was only aware at the end of the evening that some guests were using drugs and she told them to stop and to leave the home immediately. Now she admits that this may have sparked off the noisy and rowdy behaviour, which resulted in the calling of the police.
As far as the allegation of obstructing a police constable, my client would say that she became angry and distressed when she was told that they were going to remove her daughter from her care and though she regrets her actions, she admits that she did try to prevent the police constable from removing Sophie from the house. She tells me that she was horrified to find drug paraphernalia in the room and is emphatic that it is not hers. She absolutely denies that the child was cold or hungry and she states that she had given Sophie milk just before she put her down to bed at 8pm. And she also asserts that the child was only distressed because she’d been woken by strangers entering the bedroom. Your worships, as I’ve already stated, my client reluctantly agrees to the making of an interim care order but wishes you to know that she will cooperate with all assessments and tests if this will hasten the time when she can take Sophie back home, thank you.
In in the meantime my client would ask that the local authority consider whether Sophie can be placed with my client’s mother, Mrs Weeks, to provide kinship care for the period while assessments are undertaken. Your worship’s if you are not with me on that point, then on behalf of my client I would ask that the court permits supervised contact at least five times per week, so that she can maintain the relationship with Sophie, and unless I can assist the court further.
Magistrate (8:59)
Thank you for that Mr Sulphur, that was very helpful. The bench may well return to you shortly for maybe a few questions. In the meantime, I think it would be helpful for us to hear from the guardian.
Mr Napper (9:10)
Thank you, your worships. The guardian has had sight of the papers relating to this case and having heard from learned counsel for the local authority and from the respondent mother, he supports the making of an interim care order in favour of the local authority. Clearly it is going to be essential that a full parental assessment of Miss logan’s capacity to care for Sophie’s undertaken and it is important for Sophie’s well-being that this should be completed as soon as is practicable. The guardian has heard that the respondent mother would prefer that Sophie is placed with the maternal grandmother, but at this stage until safeguarding is complete, the guardian cannot agree to this even though kinship care is in general terms preferable for children. Therefore, in the meantime the child should remain in the care of the local authority. As far as contact is concerned, supervised contact will be essential to Sophie and of course to the parental assessment. The guardian would certainly suggest contact on alternate days as a starting point and as the assessment proceeds and safeguarding is resolved, then perhaps the local authority will be able to review this. The guardian is also in agreement with the timetable suggested by council for the local authority. Unless I can assist the bench further.
Magistrate (10:35)
Thank you very much Mr Napper and thanks also to the guardian for his prompt response on this matter.
10:47
[Magistrates on the bench chat]
Magistrate (10:53)
Mr Sulpher, my colleague would like to know where the respondent’s mother lives.
Mr Sulpher (11:00)
Your worships, I understand Miss Logan’s mother lives only a few streets away from Miss Logan. I can ascertain the full address if that would assist the court.
Magistrate 2 (11:10)
That’s fine.
Magistrate 1 (11:11)
No thank you Mr Sulpher, I don’t think we need the full address at present thank you. I have a question for Mr Evans. Can you tell me what efforts will be made to ensure that the father of Sophie is aware of today’s hearing and its outcome?
Mr Evans (11:28)
Your worship at present, the father is a person of interest to the police. However, I am instructed that the social worker will continue to make every effort to ensure that he is told of the outcome of today’s hearing, and I can confirm that our instructing solicitors will make every effort to serve upon him the order from today’s court and the date of any further hearing.
Magistrate 1 (11:48)
Thank you for that indication, Mr Evans.
Magistrate 1 (11:59)
The bench has no further questions. Madam Legal Adviser before we retire is there any guidance you want to provide to us at the bench?
Legal Advisor (12:07)
I would advise you that an interim care order is inevitably made at a stage where the evidence is incomplete. It should therefore only be made as an order to regulate matters that cannot wait for the full hearing. It’s not intended to place either parties at an advantage or disadvantage. As an experienced bench you will be aware that removal of child under an interim care order is a particularly sharp interference and will affect the formation of the parent child bond. Therefore, in all cases where there is an interim order for immediate separation it can only be justified where it is both necessary and proportionate and can only be sanctioned by the court where the child’s physical safety, psychological or emotional welfare demands it and where the consequences of the separation are a proportionate response to the risks that would arise if it did not occur. Additionally, the high standard of justification requires the local authority to inform the court of all available resources that might remove the need for separation. in coming to your decision, you must have regard to the welfare checklist and be aware of the range of powers available to you, including the making of no order if you see fit ma’am.
Magistrate 1 (13:30)
Thank you, ma’am. Miss Logan my colleagues and I are going to go out now to make a decision that is in Sophie’s best interest. We will try not to be too long. We will return and let you know what our decision is as soon as we can.
Madam legal advisor, do you mind joining us in the retiring room in a few minutes.
Legal Advisor (13:55)
Certainly ma’am.
Magistrate 1 (13:58)
The bench will rise.
Court clerk (14:00)
Stand please.
14:17
[Background noise]
Court clerk (14:23)
Stand please.
14:27
[Bench enters room]
Legal Advisor (14:38)
I have recommenced the recording of this hearing ma’am. You can announce the decision of the court when you’re ready.
Magistrate 1 (14:45)
Thank you, ma’am. This is a matter between Wessex County Council and Logan. It concerns the child Sophie who is five months old. This is an application for an interim care order, and we have listened carefully to Counsel for the local authority and Counsel for the mother, Sarah Logan, whose positions have been presented very cogently to the court today so I will not need to repeat it in our judgment. Suffice it to say that the local authority have expressed particular concerns regarding the care and safety of Sophie. And we have also heard that in light of this, Miss Logan has made a decision, albeit reluctantly not to seek to oppose the making of an interim care order, although we note that Miss Logan wishes to maintain as much contact as is possible with her daughter and is willing to cooperate with a local authority in matters of assessment and testing. This is certainly to her credit. Nevertheless, we have heard all the evidence and with the welfare checklist having been fully considered, this bench is unanimous that the making of an interim care order today, in favour of the local authority is under the circumstances both necessary and proportionate. We are not persuaded that there is any alternative that the local authority could have presented to us at this time that would have removed the need for separation. In making this order today I wish to address Miss Logan, to say that on behalf of the bench, we are aware that for you to have agreed to the interim care order must be a decision that you have come to with a very heavy heart.
It is to your credit that you have taken these steps. Or to put it in another way, it indicates to us that you are capable of putting Sophie’s needs to the fore and in agreeing to the interim care order and working with the local authority, you’re showing everyone that you are able to be a good mother to Sophie, so don’t lose heart. As far as contact is concerned, we are guided by the guardian who states that contact between Sophie and her mother should be on alternate days, perhaps starting in two days’ time. Miss Logan the contact between you and Sophie is important for both of you. As I understand it the social worker will be assessing how things go over the next few weeks and if they go well, the matter of contact will be reviewed then. We also assent in general to the timetable as agreed by both counsel, but at this stage I will turn to our learned Legal Advisor, who can guide us as to the earliest date for the next hearing. Madam Legal Adviser.
Legal Advisor (17:39)
Yes ma’am. I shall just see if I can find a date in the diary. If all the information is back from the local authority, have sufficient time to undertake the parenting assessment, I assume that this will only require an hour, would counsel concur with that?
Mr Evans (17:58)
I agree with that. With the mother’s cooperation in assessment and testing I think that will suffice. If you will allow your worships, I will just check with the social worker.
Yes, I’m informed that the local authority believes that the parenting assessment can be undertaken within the overall agreed timetable and that 60 minutes for a directions hearing would be enough.
Mr Sulpher (18:20)
Yes, I agree with my learned friend that 60 minutes should be sufficient. However, I would like to hear from the local authority if they will have sufficient time to undertake safeguarding and an assessment of my client’s mother, should she put herself forward as kinship carer for Sophie.
Mr Evans (18:38)
If your worships would excuse me I will just for turning my back for a moment, I will seek further instructions from the social worker.
Mr Evans (18:52)
Yes, your worships, I’m instructed the local authority should be able to manage the parenting assessment on Miss Logan and additionally to undertake safeguarding and an assessment of the maternal grandmother as a kinship carer. If there is no delay in receiving application for kinship care.
Magistrate 1 (19:10)
Thank you for that indication, Mr Evans. Madam Legal Adviser.
Legal Advisor (19:14)
Yes ma’am, given the agreement from the parties, there is an available slot for an hour’s hearing on Friday the 2nd of July, which working backwards would mean an advocates meeting on Thursday the 1st of July.
Mr Sulpher (19:31)
I’m very sorry to say ma’am, I’ll not be available on the 1st of July because I have an all-day hearing in front of his Honour Judge Smith. Therefore, I wonder if my learned friend could accommodate an advocates meeting on Wednesday the 30th of June.
Mr Evans (19:49)
I would have no difficulty with that.
Legal Advisor (19:50)
Thank you for that. Advocates meeting set for the afternoon of Wednesday the 30th of June. Statement from the mother by 22nd of June, police reports by the 15th of June, parental assessment report and safeguarding and parenting assessment of maternal grandmother, if the application is made, by the 8th of June, drug testing report on the mother by the 26th of May and health visitor and GP reports by the 12th of May. Mr Evans, I assume you will take carriage of this order and that you have my email address to return the completed order to the court?
Mr Evans (20:34)
I do ma’am. I would hope to have that back to you by tomorrow.
Legal Advisor (20:37)
If your worships are agreeable to that timetable?
Magistrate 1 (20:41)
Yes, we are agreeable to that timetable, so unless there are any other issues to be agreed?
Mr Evans & Mr Sulpher 20:47
No, no thank you ma’am.
Magistrate 1 (20:50)
In that case let me thank our learned advocates for their assistance to the courts today and also to the Social Worker and to the guardian for their expert information. Above all, Miss Logan, we want to thank you for attending today. We know that it has been very difficult for you to come to the decision that you have made regarding Sophie. Now bear in mind what I said earlier, if you do work with the local authority, it may be that things change for the better. This hearing is now complete, you are free to go. The bench will rise.
Court clerk (21:23)
Stand please.
22:12 [The bench leaves the court room]
Video 2 – A Private Law Case
Read full video transcript
Legal Advisor (0:21)
Your worships, I have had a call put out for the next case which is a private law case on your list. Grover and Grover. Both litigants are in person, but I understand the applicant Mr Grover is bringing mackenzie friend with him today to assist him.
Jane Grover (0:41)
Is this court fourteen?
Legal Advisor (0:45)
Yes, it is. Are you Jane Grover?
[Jane Grover nods]
Legal Advisor (0:47)
Do come in. Please sit yourself on that side of the court.
Magistrate 1 (0:59)
Good afternoon, Miss Grover, we’re just waiting for Mr Grover to join us. Are we aware if the applicant has signed in?
Legal Advisor (1:08)
I believe he has ma’am. Should we give him a few minutes?
Magistrate 1 (1:10)
Yes, but as I understand it we do have another case listed. uh
Legal Advisor (1:16)
Yes, we do ma’am, so we may need to make a decision sooner than later about…ah Mr Grover?
Mr Grover (1:21)
Yeah
Legal Advisor (1:22)
And who is that with you?
Mr Whitfield (1:25)
I’m John Whitfield. I’m Mr Grover’s mackenzie friend.
Magistrate 1 (1:30)
Please excuse me for interrupting you Mr Whitfield, but if you are here as a mackenzie friend then we would need to seek some guidance from our learned Legal Advisor, because as I understand it you do not have right to audience in these courts. Madam Legal Advisor?
Legal Advisor (1:45)
Yes ma’am, perhaps if I were to begin recording and introduce the case to you. This case is WFC 44921743 and is a case management hearing concerning Mr Jason Grover who is making an application for contact with his son Nathan, who is aged six. The respondent is Miss Jane Grover. Both are litigants in person, however today Mr Grover seeks permission to be assisted by a mackenzie friend. I can advise your worships that practice guidance of 2010 states that Mr Grover can exercise the right to reasonable assistance from a layperson, sometimes called a mackenzie friend. This means Mr Grover what your Mackenzie friend, Mr…
Mr Whitfield (2:35)
Whitfield
Court clerk
Thank you. Mr Whitfield what you may do is to provide you with moral support and take notes, help you with certain aspects of the court proceedings. What Mr Whitfield may not do is to act as an agent for you in today’s proceedings, for example assigning court documents or making oral submissions or interviewing witnesses. Miss Grover, do you have any objections to Mr Whitfield acting as a mckenzie friend to Mr Grover?
Miss Grover (3:07)
No, it’s fine.
Court clerk
Thank you, Miss Grover. Your worships it is at your discretion if you allow permission for Mr Grover to have a mackenzie friend acting for him today.
Magistrate 1 (3:21)
Yes, we have no objections to Mr Whitfield acting as mckenzie friend to Mr Grover, provided they both understand the limits of what may or may not be done in that role.
Mr Grover (3:33)
Yeah
Legal Advisor (3:36)
Given that both parties are litigants in person I think it may be helpful to say what we mean by a case management hearing. This is a short hearing to sort out any practical matters to get the case ready for the full hearing, so that a decision may be made. The court might make directions setting a date for you to submit evidence, for example we will hear from both of you in turn today. I will ask both of you not to interrupt each other, so if you want to say something note it down and you will be given an opportunity to say that later. The magistrate will decide what evidence the court may need, and we will set out a timetable for that evidence and a further date for you both to return to court. Do either of you have any questions about what to expect today?
[Miss Grover shakes head]
Legal Advisor (4:26)
That being so, your worships perhaps we can hear from the applicant Mr Grover as to why he’s making this application for contact with his son.
Magistrate 1 (4:36)
Yes, thank you. Mr Grover what do you want to tell us?
Mr Grover (4:40)
Well, I just want to see our Nathan. You know we split up about two years ago and it was fine at first. I was getting to see Nathan regular like, every other weekend and for tea in the week. That worked, that was fine. Yeah, I mean there was sometimes when I couldn’t make it because of work but I could usually see him from school and then she started saying that Nathan weren’t well and that he couldn’t come and I understood all that but it just started happening more regularly. So, I was only getting to see him what twice a month if that. I tried talking to her, but she wouldn’t listen, she just kept saying I weren’t a good father, and she wasn’t happy with where I was taking him, so she stopped Nathan from coming back to mine. I asked her if he could stay over on a Saturday, but she said no because he was too young. Yeah, she also didn’t like it when my Mum would see Nathan. Doesn’t trust it. You see they had an argument last year and they don’t speak to each other now. Yeah, and then in the January, she saw on Facebook that I’ve been seeing Alison. Alison’s my new girlfriend, she sometimes stays at mine, and she said that she didn’t know who Alison was and that she didn’t want a stranger looking after her son. So, after all that she just stopped me from seeing Nathan altogether. I haven’t seen him since the end of January. I tried talking to her, but she won’t answer the phone to me, she’ll just text me saying she doesn’t want Nathan to see me. Look I know that we don’t get on, but it isn’t about that. I just want to see Nathan; he wants to see me.
Magistrate 1 (6:35)
Thank you for that Mr Grover. Can you tell the court what sort and how much contact you would want with Nathan?
Mr Grover (6:42)
I just want to see him more regular-like, so ideally, I’d like it to go back to the way that it was so every other Saturday and once in the week. I think he’s old enough that he could stay over and then in time every other weekend and then we’d have to sort out Christmases, summer holidays so he gets to see both of us then. I don’t know she won’t even talk about any of that so that’s why I’ve brought it to court so that we can get a decision that’s right for Nathan and right for me.
Magistrate 1 (7:19)
Is there anything else you want us to know before we hear from the respondent mother Miss Grover and feel free to consult with your mackenzie friend if necessary.
Mr Grover (7:27)
No well I actually I just want to say that my mum brought up me and my brother on her own, she’s a good mum and she really loves Nathan, she’d never do anything to hurt him. She wants to see him almost as much as I do. I think Nathan could stay with me and my mum could see him at ours. But then Jane won’t even talk about me seeing Nathan, so that’s why I want the court to just to give us a decision so that me and Nathan, we know where we are. That’s all i want to say really.
Magistrate 1 (8:01)
Once again thank you Mr Grover. We will now hear from you Miss Grover, what would you like the court to know? well
Miss Grover (8:11)
Well, what he says, Mr Grover says, it isn’t how it is. He never really took much part in bringing up our Nathan. He left it all to me, and I know he was working but he just wasn’t really all that interested. Then when he lost his job about two years ago, well he just sat around and he was drinking and smoking weed and that made him really angry, and so he was just shouting at me and at Nathan and my mum. He was just horrible, he made everyone’s life a misery.
Magistrate 1 (8:54)
Miss Grover I’m sorry to interrupt you but I’m going to need you to speak up a bit so that we can all catch what you’re saying.
Miss Grover (9:00)
Oh sorry. Well then on the summer bank holiday we had a really big bust up and he ended up pushing me and I fell and hit my head. Well, I always said I wouldn’t stay with him if he ever raised a hand to me so that was that. Me and Nathan, we went to stay with my Mum, and I told him he had to leave. Well, he dragged his feet over that and then after about six weeks he moved out and he went to live with his Mum and Dad, so Nathan and I went home. Well, his Mum came round a couple of days after that and we got into well bit of a shouting match really, that really upset our Nathan. She called me for all sorts, a bitch, and a slag and well I wasn’t gonna have anybody calling me that in my own home, so I called the police. She left after that but since then I’ve had nothing but abuse from Jason by text and I know he’s been on social media; he’s been out partying and smoking weed with his friends.
Mr Grover (10:15)
No that’s not right.
Magistrate 1 (10:16)
You must not interrupt Miss Grover; you have been given an opportunity to put your case and shortly you will have a chance to respond to what Miss Grover is saying but for now it is Miss Grover’s turn. She didn’t interrupt you so you mustn’t interrupt her please. Continue please Miss Grover.
Miss Grover (10:35)
Well, it was after that when my sister showed me on Facebook that Jason was with someone, another woman. So, I thought well I’m not having that, not having our Nathan meeting up with somebody that I don’t know, so I told Jason that he couldn’t see him anymore, not unless he was with my Mum at least until I knew who she was. That just caused more abuse by text, but since then he hasn’t seen Nathan. I know Nathan has a right to see his father, but I just want him to be safe and I can’t be sure until I know that Jason and his mum and this woman he’s been seeing, well that they’re going to treat him right.
Magistrate 1 (11:24)
Thank you, Miss Grover. I’m going to ask you the same question as I asked Mr Grover, all things being equal Nathan has the right to see both parents so can you tell the court what sort and how much contact you would want Nathan to have with his father?
Miss Grover (11:40)
I don’t mind him seeing his dad, but I have to know that he’s safe, for all I know Jason could still be off his head on drink and cannabis. And I don’t want Jason coming around and giving me grief when he’s coming to pick Nathan up or drop him off. Also, I don’t think Nathan’s old enough to stay out overnight, he’s still really young and he doesn’t know Jason’s new partner, neither do I. Like I said I don’t really know.
Magistrate 1 (12:13)
Okay thank you for that Miss Grover. Mr Grover you now have an opportunity to respond briefly to what Miss Grover has said in court today. This is not for you to give further evidence or to ask questions of Miss Grover, it’s just an opportunity for you to respond to what she said.
Mr Grover (12:30)
I just want to say that I’ve never raised a hand to her and yes, I did lose my job, but I’m back to work now, I’m working for a different company. And she says that I’ve been taking drugs, and I haven’t, not for a long time, yeah, I used to smoke some weed when I was a lot younger, but I haven’t touched drugs in ages, and I will take a test if she wants me to prove it. You know we both used to enjoy a drink when we were younger, but I was never off my face with it. She was bang out of order the last time my Mum went round, Miss Grover I mean, she was shouting, swearing. You know my Mum only wanted to see Nathan; she hasn’t seen her for nearly a year. I just don’t see why she should be stopping my Mum from seeing Nathan and now I’m getting my life back together and we’re starting these divorce proceedings, she gets all pissed off then.
I’m sorry your honour, I meant to say that she gets all riled just because I’m seeing Alison, she obviously thinks that Alison is going to be like a new mum to Nathan, but I know that Miss Grover is Nathan’s Mum and I’ll never do anything to change that. Oh yeah and these text messages I’m supposed to have sent, well you know she gave as good as she got, we were both angry. I’ve still got the messages on my phone; I can prove it. So, I didn’t say anything bad about her we were both angry. Do you wish to see the texts?
Legal Advisor (13:51)
No that won’t be necessary for now, thank you. Is there anything else you would like to tell the magistrates?
Mr Grover (13:58)
No thanks.
Magistrate 1 (14:00)
Thank you, Mr Grover, and to you too Miss Grover, it’s not easy representing yourself, so thank you for the way you have both presented your statements today. Madam Legal Advisor, is there any guidance that you have for us at this stage?
Legal Advisor (14:15)
Well ma’am, it would appear that the applicant and the respondent have very different accounts of the position they take with regard to contact with their son. At this stage it would seem we need more information before you can make a decision, as you can see the Cafcass safeguarding letter corroborates some of the issues that have been raised here today.
Magistrate 1 (14:40)
Forgive me for interrupting Madame legal Advisor, but can I just check that both parties are aware that Cafcass is an organization that represents children in family courts in England and independently advises the family courts about what is safe for children and in their best interests. I assume you both have a copy of the safeguarding letter from Cafcass? yeah
Mr Grover (15:04)
Yeah, I’ve got one here.
[Miss Grover nods]
Magistrate 1 (15:06)
Madam Legal Advisor, apologies again for interrupting you.
Legal Advisor (15:12)
Not at all ma’am. As I was saying the safeguarding letter indicates that there is some evidence of previous drug use and of domestic abuse, therefore I think the court should ask for further evidence in the form of drug testing and police disclosure. You should also require statements from both parties which needs to set out in detail the nature of the allegations of abuse. It also appears that the parties are unable to agree about contact arrangements for their son Nathan, therefore the statements for each party should also include details of what each party wants in terms of contact. With this information we shall then be in a better position to resolve matters, so if I start by sending a date for the hearing and then we can work backwards and find a date by which all evidence can be served. The earliest date I can find where there is availability, is the week commencing September 27th. I don’t think there is anything earlier than that, no it doesn’t seem so. Well, that may not be such a bad thing as t will take at least 30 days for police disclosure to be returned.
In the meantime, you both need to be aware that testing for cannabis needs to be undertaken by a laboratory approved by the court and there is usually a cost to that. It’s also usual where both litigants are in person that both parties share the cost. The cost for hair strand testing it is 400 pounds, can you both confirm that you are willing to share that cost?
Mr Grover (16:54)
Yes, I can sort my half of that.
Miss Grover (16:57)
I’m not sure, I’m not working at the moment so I don’t think I can afford that. I don’t know, can I pay in instalments?
Legal Advisor (17:10)
I believe there is a means by which the company I will recommend to you allows a portion of the fee to be paid in instalments. I will check that and provide the information to you when the court writes to you. The alternative I suppose would be to ask a relative and pay them back?
Miss Grover (17:29)
I don’t know, I suppose I can ask, yeah um okay I’ll try and sort something out.
Legal Advisor (17:40)
Thank you, Miss Grover. Your worship’s, I think at this stage, rather than incur a further cost for alcohol testing, we should ask Mr Grover to provide a letter from his GP to indicate if there’s been any excessive use of alcohol consumption during Mr Grover’s consultations with his doctor that will help to minimise costs and hopefully provide the court with the necessary information. Your worships if we were to set the next hearing for Tuesday the 28th of September that would mean that statements from the parties would need to be in the week before, that is Tuesday the 21st of September. And the police disclosure, the drug testing, and the letter from Mr Grover’s GP by the 14th of September.
Magistrate 1 (18:29)
Mr Grover, Miss Grover, the date for the next hearing being offered by the Legal Advisor is the 28th of September is there any reason why either of you cannot attend on that date?
Mr Grover & Miss Grover (18:42)
No, no
Magistrate 1 (18:44)
Thank you for that, then I am formally adjourning this hearing through to the 28th of September. You will each need to provide to the court and to each other a statement setting out your proposals for contact between Mr Grover and his son Nathan, so the statements are not about what has happened in the past but about what in your opinion is best for Nathan’s future. I will say that your statement should be no more than two sides of A4 paper and no less than 12 points font if you word process it. The latest date for providing the statements is the 21st of September, the police disclosure will be requested by the courts and the drug testing will need to be completed so that the report is with the courts by the 14th of September. Don’t worry too much about these dates, they will be in the court order that will be sent out to you in a few days’ time. Madam Legal Advisor are there any other matters for the courts in this case?
Legal Advisor (19:46)
No ma’am, I don’t think there are. Are the applicants free to go?
Magistrate 1 (19:51)
Yes. Mr Grover, Miss Grover, thank you for your attendance in court today, you are now free to leave.
Mr Grover (19:59)
Thank you.
Miss Grover (20:00)
Thank you.